So, Jen’s out:
But I simply no longer love blogging. Instead of feeling gleeful anticipation when writing up a post, I feel nothing but dread. There’s a group of people out there (google the ironic term FtBullies to find them) devoted to hating me, my friends, and even people I’m just vaguely associated with. I can no longer write anything without my words getting twisted, misrepresented, and quotemined. I wake up every morning to abusive comments, tweets, and emails about how I’m a slut, prude, ugly, fat, feminazi, retard, bitch, and cunt (just to name a few). If I block people who are twisting my words or sending verbal abuse, I receive an even larger wave of nonsensical hate about how I’m a slut, prude, feminazi, retard, bitch, cunt who hates freedom of speech (because the Constitution forces me to listen to people on Twitter). This morning I had to delete dozens of comments of people imitating my identity making graphic, lewd, degrading sexual comments about my personal life. In the past, multiple people have threatened to contact my employer with “evidence” that I’m a bad scientist (because I’m a feminist) to try to destroy my job. I’m constantly worried that the abuse will soon spread to my loved ones.
I just can’t take it anymore.
For the unanointed, a year and a bit ago Rebecca Watson, a blogger, atheist and skeptic, posted a video about moving house in which she spoke for about 30 seconds about the fact that she attended a panel at an atheist conference that dealt with sexual harassment of women in the movement, and despite talking about nothing else all day and making her intentions or lack thereof very clear, was accosted by some socially awkward jerk in the lift at 4am on the way to her hotel room. Before this video was posted on Skepchick and here, we all thought we had a fairly tight-knit community of people who not only lacked belief in gods, but also shared other common goals and values. Boy, were we ever wrong.
Ever since that video, the hate has not stopped for a day. As it is today, we have progressive voices like Jen McCreight, PZ Myers, Greta Christina and I guess me, Jadehawk and countless others who don’t blog but comment promoting and supporting the Atheism+ movement, while at the same time former greats of the atheist community like Russell Blackford or Paula Kirby have for some reason decided to side with the misogynist basement warriors who chose to disagree with Rebecca Watson last year, and have ever since led a relentless campaign of intimidation and smearing on blogs and social media, not only against Watson, but also against the Freethoughtblogs network and some of its bloggers.
Richard Dawkins got caught up in this kerkuffle last year with his “Dear Muslima” comments on Pharyngula, and my impression from his increasingly partisan and cringeworthy tweets is that he has chosen sides and allegiances, just like Paula Kirby. This is not how a rationalist and skeptic should act. We’re not in the trenches in 1915 France here.
What I would rather expect from Dawkins, and not only him, but everyone else who has so far chosen sides in the great Rebeccalypse debate of whether propositioning women in confined spaces at 4am is fine and dandy or not, is that they look at the evidence rationally and with an open mind. They may not agree with Jen McCreight on her views on feminism or Atheism+, or with Rebecca’s take on elevatorgate, but I do expect from these champions of science and rationality that they look at the amount of harassment, hate and pressure that Jennifer has received from people in the atheist community, and I want them to tell me whether they think that this to them is reasonable discourse or not.
We hear a lot about how Freethoughtblogs are bullying people, how its bloggers(and Watson)are Feminazi and Femistasi. But there is a great amount of silence from our champions of reason when it comes to young enthusiastic female bloggers being harassed and threatened to the point of quitting.
Do the leading voices of the atheism movement condone what happened to Jen McCreight? Did she have it coming and do they not care because they disagree with her views?
Richard, you tweet a lot these days, how about a comment now? This is important to me, because I consider it my movement as well. I can not be part of an atheism movement that will not speak out against harassment, online or real life, where pathetic basement bullies use the internet to intimidate those they aim to silence. If the leaders of the atheism movement are indeed such champions of reason, they will consider it an important and worthy goal to support those who are threatened and turned away by such people.
The one thing we can safely conclude here in the meantime however, is that it is not the bloggers or commenters at Freethoughtblogs who are doing the harassing, intimidating or bullying.
I wish Jen McCreight all the best, there is a life beyond the internet. We’ll keep going mate, you just come back when you’re ready.
Is this a guest post by Greg Laden?
Oh, I’m sure that Richard would say that she should just be ignoring it, and if she can’t cut it then good riddance. Because people call him damned to hell all the time and it doesn’t bother him any and it’s just the same, see?
*in-joke*
I mention Dawkins in this post only because him choosing sides and tweeting what he has of late is not rational. I am here writing on my own blog now mainly because of the books of his (and Hitchens’)that I read in the last 5 years. I expect better from him than what I have seen recently.
Inviting someone to join you for coffee in his room is being “accosted?”
And you don’t get why people find your crowd hysterical and over-the-top?
The “Dear Muslima” reply would be a completely appropriate response to this drivel too.
Being “insulted” on Twitter is a 1st world, quality problem. Poor baby has electricity, internet service, her own blog on a high-traffic network, gets invited to bitch about her wounded pride to sympathetic fans who can afford to get away for a weekend, and an army of sycophants like you.
She can sign into Twitter from a host of electronic toys at her finger tips voluntarily to read about how people don’t like her call-to-arms clique.
Waaaaaa!!!! Send her some boxes of Kleenex and expensive fluffy teddy bears everyone!!!!
Oh lord, do they ever stop?
spectator – why do you care so much to follow people around and whine about them? If anyone looks like an oversensitive person who just can’t let anything go, it’s people like you.
“while at the same time former greats of the atheist community like Russell Blackford or Paula Kirby have for some reason decided to side with the misogynist basement warriors ”
Oh do fuck off. If a person disagrees in any way with anyone in the FTB network they’re described as siding with “misogynist basement warriors”?!
Let me see. Many atheists happen to be murderers and rapists. Kent Hovind is a Christian. If you disagree with Kent Hovind then you side with murderers and rapists. Right?
Carlie,
He Tweeted (announced) this post on the FTBullies hashtag.
So I wasn’t “following” him. (or her)
I’m tempted to close the comments already. Goodness.
spectator – you’re the one who clicked to follow the link here and decided to write a comment, right? And then kept checking back to see what other comments were made? Following it around, caring so much about it that you have to make sure that you get your opinion on it in everywhere possible.
Ok,
Scratch my comments.
Replace them with FIRST!!!!
Why blog, Martin, if you don’t want to interact with your commenters? I know the FTBloggers only want specific dialogue that agrees with what they say, especially if the horde kicks it up a notch.
I didn’t use any words that the FCC would censor.
Sigh. There are few things I hate more than atheists proving that the Christians may have a point when they say they’re better than us.
Because right now the vast majority of Christians I know would never even considering stooping to the level of that which the atheists who are continually showing up to remind us exactly why A+ is needed are stooping.
spectator, no decent person wants to interact with someone like you. Go die in a fire. No, I’m not being hyperbolic. I actually mean I want you to die in a fire.
I’m getting death threats!!!!
and I’m a female with an opinion (and not an atheist)
I don’t care who or what you are, you’re a worthless piece of shit. You add nothing to the conversation.
But I”m not a murderous arsonist.
Oh, how do you know that? Please link to their mission statement where they point this out. No, wait, let me guess…It’s a secret, right? One that you have figured out for yourself?
*sigh*
Wowbagger,
Are you sure your an atheist and not an Al Qaeda terrorist? The rhetoric is so 9/11!
Mission statements sound too Christian-like for an atheist blog. Do they really have one? Can you link me to it, Martin?
Sorry for getting trolly.
I’m out!
Flounce!!!
The story of Jen..
1) Make a joke post about a “boobquake” and find yourself suddenly thrust into the blogger limelight
2) Start a blog to chat with all your new friends
3) Become convinced you are a great thinker and moral leader
4) Start making ridiculous claims about the world in the “safe space” of your blogger echo chamber
5) Start pissing off so many people that your stupid ideas start to get you in trouble
6) Quit blogging with tears and sniffles
My prediction of the future…. Mega flounce. Jen will be back more self-righteous than ever. She will learn to handle the stress in her life with the help of Prozac and liquor. She will become a vindictive gender feminist man-hater and live with 15 cats.
@Wowbagger
You just told someone to go and die in a fire because they do not fit your requirements of a decent person
Something tells me you have a very warped sense of who or what is decent.
Martin, you’re probably a better man than me-given that your “About Me” statement says that you’re an ER doctor. I applaud you for your service to humankind.
I happen to think that every human being should be given a fair shake and that men and women are equals in most areas-one major exception being that in general men are superior in physical abilities than women, in general (of course there are exceptions).
However, that sheer volume of posts that have been devoted to this subject over the past two years is deafening. It is as if nothing else matters on this whole planet anymore (Alexander Aan) to the community of Freethought, sceptic, atheist and secular bloggers. The Internet, much like life itself, is vicious. Hate is the default in life. People hate, hate, hate anything different from themselves and the Internet is where they come to do it anonymously… but the only thing they can hurl from that position is words-not stones, bullets or bombs. One can’t be raped, genitally mutilated or killed via the net. One doesn’t have to set up or read any blog, read tweets, FB or comments on any of them. Let’s face it: apparently way too many privileged westerners have too much time on our hands-myself included!
It is certainly a shame that people are the way that people are: that so many of us throw around hateful, despicable comments like the ones from a well known FtB commenter above (yet you feign ignorance about it). I quit regularly reading FtB because of the vile nature of so many of the commenters there. It has become absurd and with the recent unveiling of A+, the hypocrisy is epic. The “your with or against us” attitude exemplified by Myers, Carrier, Christina et al. was the last straw…and trying to co-opt secular humanism for a nascent, fledgling enterprise is disingenuous. I suspect that all these people care about are paydays via blog hits, speaking engagements and possibly through the establishment of a new organization, paid positions within it. It looks to me like you’ve aligned yourself with them. I hope that you will reconsider but given that you have chosen to respond to a rather innocuous statement and have said nothing about the hate filled statements of one of your commenters leaves me rather hopeless that you will.
So we’ve got the MRAs and Chill Girls visiting to tell us all about how great it is to sneer at women and whining when they’re told to fuck off.
Hey, fuckwads, you’ve made your point. You hate it when women want to be treated like human beings. We understand you’re so fucked up you hate half of the human race. Maybe one of these days you’ll decide to grow up. But I doubt it.
Hmm is anyone else having problems with the pictures on this blog
loading? I’m trying to determine if its a problem on my end or if it’s the blog.
Any responses would be greatly appreciated.
What pictures?
‘Tis Himself
So it is perfectly acceptable for Wowbagger to say he’d like people to die in a fire, because that isn’t hate speech?
Cos Wowbagger really wants Spectator to die in a fire?
Should I report Wowbagger to get him/her removed from this blog and banned?
Should I be alerting the authorities?
Or should I just accept that what Wowbagger said is nothing more dangerous than the “fuckwads” comment you left?
Other people and I merely disagree with you, that is not a threat, that is not vitriol- I do not understand why what is such a difficult concept for you to grasp.
Yes, there are horrible trolls on the internet who are despicably unkind and reprehensible and I fully sympathise with anyone who has had to endure it, but I think that has clouded your views over what you deem to be hate rather than what people like myself have been doing and that is disagreeing.
Martin – thy name is hypocrite.
http://furiouspurpose.me/yes-why-wouldnt-they/
“Too many Freethoughtblog bloggers are putting unruly commenters (read : those who have shown themselves to at times disagree vocally with the blog host) into moderation queues or ban them outright, rather than being prepared to have an open debate. Its Freethoughts for the nice and accomodating on Token Skeptic or the even more pathetic WWJTD (to only name a couple), if you disagree too often or too loud, you’re out. Talk about blacklists… And every day I have more time on my hands, as more FtB bloggers show themselves to be censors at heart, who do only value open debate and discussion as long as it doesn’t challenge their preconceptions or deviate from a certain nettiquette.”
Good to see trolling FTB one day and then pretending to be their ally the next. Nice job, jerks.
Learn to read for comprehension, mate. The post you quote from criticises Kylie Sturgess. I am not associated with FTB, I don’t care who blogs there, I choose carefully who to read there, and I will post any criticism I deem appropriate of any FTB blogger if I think it’s necessary, for example if they ban commenters for merely disagreeing. I have mostly, and purposefully, stayed out of the recent controversies that were tossed around on FTB. This is my blog, I write about what interests me(and hopefully the readers).
FTB is not a homogenous unit, it’s a platform. It’s not hypocrisy to be unhappy with the odd blogger there.
Misogynist assholes like Spectator and you would improve the species by removing yourselves from it. If you’d prefer to drown yourself, I’m sure Wowbagger wouldn’t object.
Anything else you want to whine about?
Hi, Tis Himself. Short posts from you today; not had enough time to google some decent longer stuff and post it as your own?
Rorschach: you’re a cunt, and skipping your biochem classes in Med School was probably not the best idea, eh?
Tis Himself
So your best retort was to tell me to go die too and accuse me of something I’m not?
I think your discussion skills might need a bit of work – might want to do some basic stuff like find evidence and proof before you accuse people of things you seem to have trouble knowing the proper meaning of.
Oh yes, probably might want to work on the whole anger issues too, the whole “go and die” routine is not very intimidating, its actually quite pathetic.
@’Tis Himself
Did you come up with that comment yourself, or did you copy it from somewhere else (with miniscule alterations, of course)? Not that there is much too wrong with a bit of plagiarism here and there…
Quote: “The story of Jen..
1) Make a joke post about a “boobquake” and find yourself suddenly thrust into the blogger limelight
2) Start a blog to chat with all your new friends
3) Become convinced you are a great thinker and moral leader
4) Start making ridiculous claims about the world in the “safe space” of your blogger echo chamber
5) Start pissing off so many people that your stupid ideas start to get you in trouble
6) Quit blogging with tears and sniffles
My prediction of the future…. Mega flounce. Jen will be back more self-righteous than ever. She will learn to handle the stress in her life with the help of Prozac and liquor. She will become a vindictive gender feminist man-hater and live with 15 cats.”
So, she will eventually turn into Ophelia Benson then?
The sooner the likes of Benson, BlagHag, Watson, PZ, etc… are forced out the better. If you care more about feminism, then at least stop trying to force it under the umbrella of atheism. Forcing people out might be harsh, but when they’re as ignorant about reality, and as sensitive as a clit, as they show themselves up to be, they are not going to add anything to progressing secularism.
Whiny blogs like this simply add fuel to their crusades of petty whinging.
At the end of the day, when you put yourself in the public eye, you must expect some portion of the attention you are going to get to be negative.
No Richard Dawkins or Sam Harris statement in support of some lay person blogger would have changed anything about that.
If you are a blogger, you want attention. If you’re lucky, you’ll get attention. The attention you’ll get is not going to be all good. You cannot have it both ways. You cannot start a blog and expect to have all the nicey-nicey bits that come with it and expect there not to be any instance of nastiness.
This is true of bloggers ho write about gardening and stamp collecting. It should be even more obvious to someone who decides to start a new socio-cultural-political movement. And make it public. And suggest imposing a number of anti-free speech totalitarian rules upon prospective followers of the new cult. Only a very naive person is going to think that constantly painting yourself as the victim who is being ‘harassed’ is going to get nothing but expressions of sympathy.
Internet discussions and blogs ARE trolling. They CANNOT exist without one another. It is the nature of the beast. You cannot put yourself out there and expect nothing but expressions of adoration and love. That’s ridiculous.
Can you do us all a favor please. Google “trolling”. Or for that matter, google the alphabet. Then come back and write comments on the internet.
Tis Himself,
You are pathetic. People can treat women as equals without agreeing with the feminazis. Even if the elevator incident did actually happen, was Watson raped, or did the guy just back off respecting her decision? Give us a break. All idiots like you do is polarise and generate apathy. It seems you idiots have no means of changing opinions, you just call everyone who disagrees with A+ (religion- would be a better term) rape apologists etc. How sad and pathetic that’s all you have.
Dear lord this is hilarious. The people who are complaining vocally about others receiving threats are telling people to go die in a fire. This whole atheismplus debacle is a stunning demonstration in willful ignorance.
Please don’t resist that temptation any longer. The usual atheist+ idiocy of insisting that all opponents are misogynists? The usual blind hypocrisy of whining about internet abuse whilst simultaneously indulging in it by hurling obscenities and abuse? Suggestions that people should go die in a fire or drown themselves?
You people have revealed yourself to be no better than any other zealots with a cause, and that is why still great people like Dawkins, Kirby and Blackford want nothing to do with you. If you seriously think that your creepy combination of entitled over-reaction and doctrinaire tub-thumping is going to be the future of atheism you are all in for a serious dose of well-deserved disappointment. Get the damned log out of your eye.
Jack Rawlinson:
Can you really not see the difference between hurling obscenities at someone because they are female, and hurling obscenities at someone who is hurling obscenities at someone because they are female? Really?
See, this is what the A+ supporters like to claim, that Watson et. al. get pushback because they are women, hence the liberal use of the word “misogynist” to dismiss any criticism. Yet, where is the proof in this? Misogyny means hatred of women because they are women, can you show that the people criticizing, arguing with the A+ leaders are doing so because they hate women?
And while we’re at it, can you show that the trolls are actually coming out of the “community” and are not just your garden variety internet trolls who seem to be able to sniff out drama?
Excuse me, but I am the past master at flouncing. Others are just amateurs. And really, don’t we all have better things to do? There is an actually world out there, with real problems, with real misogyny and real hisogyny. There is ignorance and prejudice and delusion. Time to stop gazing at navels (and no, I don’t mean sailors), and do good work. Good work means being skeptical, and that includes of each other. If I were you, I would not trust me an inch. But anyway, here is a hint – if you don’t like bullies, it’s best not to be one. Ye shall be known by thy works and all that. So a slap on the wrist to all who have be naughty and now put on your best cloaks and A+ badges and fly my pretties, fly…
Prove me wrong. Show that A+ can do good in the world. Make me look like an idiot. Isn’t that motivation enough?
Steve Zara,
Protesting against misogyny isn’t doing good work? Better that no one says anything and keeps silent about it or ignores it altogether? Is that really your position?
“Protesting against misogyny isn’t doing good work?”
I leave it up to you to decide what doing good work is. But my idea is that it actually has to achieve something positive. Do you think that anything positive has been achieved yet?
I think that Jen’s “boobquake” was a very clever and witty idea. It really showed up the absurdity of the views of the religious nutcases.
I’d like to point out that she achieved that without having to label herself “atheist+”. In fact, the only label she needed was “woman”. Good thing too – “boobquake” was brilliant enough that anyone should have been able to support it, religious or atheist.
THAT’s the kind of bright idea I’d like to see. But don’t ask me, I haven’t the imagination. I’m only asking that energy be put into such clever ideas, not fights that seem to me to be getting nowhere.
@Steve Zara,
Then I submit that this:
has already happened.
@Aratina
I’m a skeptic! Evidence, please!
As far as I can see, the fights are exclusively being initiated by those who somehow consider A+ an attack on their freedom to feel smugly superior to the religious while displaying a total lack of rationality or skepticism in many other areas, such as the social justice issues.
You’ve already hung yourself with all the rope you took, Steve.
Thanks for your effort for posting “Must be all those
Femistasi and FTBullies”. I actuallymight certainly end up being coming back for much more reading and commenting here in the near future.
Thanks a lot, Lewis