Tag Archives: skeptic

How to not do skepticism

Sounds like the attendants of the Women in Secularism 2 conference over in the US are having lots of fun, from what I can gather from what’s being tweeted about it. I have to say I’m slightly jealous that I’m not there!

But what’s this:

Daniel Samuelson Daniel Samuelson ‏@Luarien

“We need to empower women to stand up to doctors” so they’ll listen, run tests, get proper care. #wiscfi

This is a quote I note, presumably from a speaker there, but I don’t know from who exactly. In any case, it made my jaw drop a little. In the first instance, because it seems to suggest that doctors as a whole have a tendency to treat women worse than men. When did this happen? Who found that out? There’s surely hard evidence for such a claim? And is it “doctors” in general, or just the males, or just the misogynist males, the sexist males, white males, black males? Bisexual female doctors? Homosexual doctors? African-American doctors? And who do they discriminate against by means of lapses in their work ethics? White females? Large females? Black females? Unemployed females? Transsexual Chinese females? We are not told.

So now I am being bombarded with tweets from undoubdetly well-meaning #wiscfi attendees who are sending me links and comments. It’s not helping:

Julia Larson Julia Larson ‏@EIAtheism

@clinteas @SpokesGay Look up what women have to go through to have a vaginal birth when their doctors want c-sections for convenience.

Their male doctors? Their female doctors? Because over here, a majority of Ob&Gyns are probably female. And as to “C-sections for convenience”, is that the convenience of needing an anaesthetist, obstetrician, paediatrician and 2 theatre nurses, an anaesthetic and cutting open the abdomen compared to needing, you know, a midwife and a bowl of water? I would have thought if a Caesarian was for anyone’s convenience, it would be for the pregnant woman’s. But what do I know.

—————————————————————————————————————————-

From what I see and read, there was indeed bullshit had at WiS2. Here’s the full statement quoted from one of the panelists:

  • Sarah: It also has to do with the fact that modern medicine does not treat men and women equally. For instnace, women are more likely to die of heart attacks because doctors don’t take women’s reports of pain seriously. When I had a Crohn’s flareup at 15, doctors were like, “Oh, you’re just being hysterical.” It can get frustrating after seeing doctor after doctor and you might end up going to a naturopath instead, because they spend much more time with each patient than real doctors do. We need to empower women to speak up and tell doctors that they can’t ignore them, and that they need healthcare.
  • Anemia is a good example. Women often get it and it’s often attributed to women’s periods. But actually, it can be due to a gastrointestinal bleed, which is really serious. Women should be able to speak up and say that no, it’s not just because of their periods.

I think I’m the one who’s going to have the heart attack here. Let’s yell it together: [CITATION NEEDED] !!!

Women are more likely to die of heart attacks because doctors don’t treat their reports of pain seriously? Where, Saturn? Anaemia can be due to GI bleed? Sure, and due to cancer, bone marrow failure, lack of sunlight, genetics, and among many other things, heavy periods. And yes, anaemia is “often attributed” to women’s heavy periods, in particular when women report heavy periods.

Come on folks. This is ridiculous and unworthy. Do better.

Why organized Skeptics are nicer people

I know deep in my soul that there exists a magic pink unicorn with green ears, out there in the universe, you can’t exactly pinpoint it down because it’s kinda like everywhere at once and all-encompassing, but I just know it’s there, I have great faith in its existence. The magic pink unicorn with green ears is really really powerful, and it can do anything you see, it answers our prayers, it makes football players kick important goals, and sometimes it saves toddlers in train crashes or earthquakes.

It’s like, totally different from the natural things on earth, and you can’t prove it with science or something, you just have to feel it and know it within yourself, and have faith. The magic pink unicorn with green ears makes us good moral people, and it makes a beautiful sunset beautiful, and gives us love and compassion. I know this to be true. Without our faith in the magic pink unicorn with green ears, we would have none of these things and society would crumble. This has been personally reveiled to me by the magic pink unicorn with green ears, and you can’t prove otherwise.

What’s this you say, mean atheist? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence? That which can be asserted without proof, can be dismissed without proof? If the magic pink unicorn with green ears can indeed make sportspeople kick goals and save toddlers, these would be natural (not supernatural) phenomena that we ought to be able to measure? And if the magic pink unicorn with green ears has no measurable effect in the natural world, we may as well dismiss the whole notion as unneccessary balderdash? Oh, but you new atheists are such meanies!! This makes me really uncomfortable.

What’s this you say, dear organized Skeptic?

I’m not about to accept the controversial positions of handful of atheist activists as representative of the wider view of scientists. (These are, you realize, positions novel enough to them that they felt they were good hooks for controversial books?) But regardless, many skeptics have argued just as you ask: that for reasons of division of labour, skeptics will stick to the testable paranormal claims that we do best.

Such nice people, the organized Skeptics! Just declare that religious claims are untestable, that faith isn’t such a bad thing really and we ought to respect it, that they should be welcoming to everyone in their big skepticism tent(just not to those pesky atheists), and besides, they’re kinda flat out right now with Bigfoot and the moon landing anyway and can’t spare any resources (what’s this you say, atheists, you’d be happy to bring your own resources?).

Much nicer people than the atheists clearly, those organized Skeptics! Come to think of it, I’ve always had my doubts about this Dowsing stuff, so maybe I should shell out 400 bucks and go to TAM some day! At least there I don’t run the risk of having to defend my position, or being asked *gasp* questions about my faith. This makes me feel really comfortable.

Atheist Courtyard of the Gentiles

Remember when the Catholics came up with the idea of a forum where believers and nonbelievers would sit together and calmly and politely discuss their differences? The so-called “Courtyard of the Gentiles“?

It seems to me that what we are seeing now with Michael Nugent’s ill-fated attempt to bring together those who think that women are people and those who have quibbles with the notion and its applications, is very similar indeed to this Christian palaver-fest.

This “dialogue” is so heavily moderated that it’s ridiculous, and we have a person with a real name appearing for the motion, Stephanie Zvan, while the harassers and false equivalencers from the Twatson side can conveniently have their say in anonymity behind “Jack Smith”.

I’ve said it before. This perception by Nugent that what we have here are two equally valid approaches to skepticism and atheism and what these terms should contain is flawed. There is no middle ground between “women are people” and “women are people after a fashion, although speaking up is more of a guy thing, and what about us white menz”.

The mere fact that we seem to have a “dialogue” now between harassers, their enablers, the proud Bigfoot skeptics and those content to see atheism as a way to feel smugly superior to the religious, and those on the other side who see social justice issues as a natural extension of atheism and skepticism sets these movements back 20 years, in my opinion. What was needed after Elevatorgate was a clear signal from our movements and its main representatives that yes of course, conferences and meetings should have anti-harassment policies, like every damn 7-11 store or corporate entity, that yes of course, our movements should be as inviting and welcoming as possible, and that yes of course, we should the fuck listen to those who are telling us that there are problems in our movements with the things mentioned above, and it would be a good idea to listen and try to fix the issues.

Instead here we are now having a “dialogue”. Listening to the politely and calmly presented arguments from “both sides”. This is well and truly surreal.

I have suggestions for future Courtyards: Let’s bring together normal people and proponents of banning abortions. Or how about, normal people and those who think gays should be killed in Uganda. Or how about this one, normal people and those who think letting Blacks on the bus was a bad idea in the first place, let alone to allow them to sit down. Let’s have a sincere dialogue and talk about these things, see if we can find some common ground. But strictly no yelling or bad words. And we won’t have any militant or strident folks speak for the normal people’s side. Yes, that’ll work.